While on the topic of mileage...what are you guys paying out of pocket for medical insurance? Our company pays 100% for the employee BUT if you have a family or anyone else you want to add it costs a lot of $$$. I pay for medical-dental-vision almost $1,100 per month!!! Thats over $500 out of each check taken! I remember when I first started in the early 90's the company (whom I still work for) paid it all and it was no more than $200 / month for their expense...

So what do y'all pay???

taker easy ~

muleyman

We pay the employee portion - dependents are paid for by the employee.

Medical insurance costs are way out of hand - as is billing for medical services and pharmaceuticals. Coverage is a shell game. I love it when the Insurance company tells people that they should be on different drugs!
My wife went to the E.R. in the middle of the day and got 3 stitches for $1600 a couple of months ago. A little over a year ago my daughter went to the E.R. in the middle of the night having difficulty breathing and it only cost me a $50 copay! Keep in mind that my premiums went up between then an now as well!

It's really sad that the government thinks a 700+ page bill that will be thrown out in the courts will help us with this. The problems and solutions are pretty simple:

1. Eliminate Group Health Insurance. You don't get discounted insurance with super ridiculous benefits on your car insurance because you work for a big company so why should you for health insurance? This is the main reason the small companies and individuals get screwed.

2. No one can be denied coverage for any reason except non-payment.

3. Premiums are based on age, location and plan.

4. Any plan must be available to anyone of any age.

5. The highest premium on any given plan cannot exceed 4 times the lowest premium (if you're 20 and it's $200 a 64 year old on the same plan would pay no more than $800)

6. Nonsense billing (like $1600 for 3 stitches) would not be tolerated and subject to severe penalty.

7. A plan must exist for no less than 3 years with no more than a 15% increase in rates per year. (If the plan is losing money the insurance company would not have to offer the plan after the first year but those who are on the plan would have to be able to stay on it.)

8. Employers would be required to deduct premiums pre-tax from employee's paychecks and payments would be made to a centralized payment handling agency for all medical insurance companies (employers don't necessarily have to pay the premiums out of their pocket.)

9. Employers who pay all or part of premiums should get additional tax incentives.

10. Catastrophic coverage for those who wish to have an MSA should have reasonable rates. (Any time I've looked at this it has made very little sense due to high premiums for coverage that doesn't do anything until you pay $2000 or more out of your own pocket!)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Scotty,

paying 100% of my insurance cost $400.00 per month just for medical just for me and $3000.00 deductible,

I feel lucky after the judge ruled the Obama Care unconstitutional Blue Shield Canceled a schedules increase of 25% that was a direct cost added by the federal health care regulations.

One of the last straws for me at my former employer back at the end of 2009 was because of health insurance. They could not afford the good HMO plan anymore (employees paid 50% for their coverage) so he signed up for a bare-basic cheapie plan that required $2000 annual deductible and 50% copay. Employees were to still pay half, and if they wanted to upgrade to the other plan was was worth a crap, employees pay 100% of the difference. Basically this was a way to make employees pay 70% share of the insurance as nobody with any brains was going to take that basic plan.

My current plan at my new employer is a 50-50 split on a better plan than the old place. Haven't used it yet, but the deductible and co-pays are way more tolerable. I have to check my paycheck deductions tonight, but I just have a single plan, no family. Pretty inexpensive.

quote:

2. No one can be denied coverage for any reason except non-payment.

Scotty
would everyone be required to buy at 18 years of age?

SO on the " No one can be denied coverage "
a guy who buys when 18 takes good care of him self gets no real break over

the guy who never buys and does not need insurance while young and does drugs and drinks to liver failure then wants to buy?

you said nothing about allowing selling/buying insurance across state lines?
Seems to me competition is needed in insurance

As well if the

quote:

The highest premium on any given plan cannot exceed 4 times the lowest premium

would not that really just increase the lower rate
not lower the higher rate?

quote:

1. Eliminate Group Health Insurance. You don't get discounted insurance with super ridiculous benefits on your car insurance because you work for a big company so why should you for health insurance? This is the main reason the small companies and individuals get screwed.

not sure if you ever priced individual policy
until Obama care
Individual health insurance polices were ALWAYS cheaper than group. But you had to buy YOUNG and healthy and pay your whole life... I did

the good part of group, you could screw off your whole life and then get a job when you need a liver transplant that covered you and after 30-90 days you were covered. but the cost was always WAY more than individual (if you purchased when you and kept it paid over the years) again I did

One IDEA I like is at 18 years of age you were allowed to buy insurance no preexisting condition or denial. After 19 years you must qualify. There should be rewards for those who take care of them selves.

But there have been too many slackers who did not buy insurance and when young never felt the $25.00 per month was worth it, but at 50 when they needed coverage for the $60,000.00 operation they think everyone else should pay for it.

there is no such right as health care.
it is a service like copier repair
you no pay you get no care
health Insurance is a privilege you choose to BUY. you no buy you get no health insurance..
you them are a Time and Material repair

I would never suggest anyone should be required to buy anything by the government unless they it is in pursuit of a privilege - like driving a car.

I'm not sure where you got your insurance so long ago that you still have. Any insurance company I have dealt with in the last 20 years has had absolutely no allegiance to me on rates and kept them down for staying with them even thought they have made tons of money on my small group to help pay for the crazy benefits they give to larger employers.

I have NOT suggested that there not be competition or suggested that the government provide health insurance (they already do). Not really sure what buying/selling across state lines has to do with 'where you live'. The location of the Insurance company doesn't matter for car insurance. Where the car is garaged does.

Every time I have priced coverage for my family separately it has been higher for less coverage. Furthermore; individuals are much more likely to be dropped from coverage or 'priced out' than a group (at least in this state). Insurance companies would much rather have one check from a group of 5, 10, 15 or 100 people than have to chase payment from each individual.

There may be additional conditions relative to the rate. (things like Non-smokers get a 15% discount, additional discounts for continuous coverage - prior or future. These discounts would also have to be subject to a maximum discount percentage overall.) Choosing to smoke is not a pre-existing condition, it's a bad choice.

I'm simply suggesting that insurance companies need to adjust rates based on the entire population much like they already do with auto insurance. Currently they keep rates really low for large companies (which may employee a lot of people you have described) to get and keep their business. I can guarantee no health insurance company has EVER come close to breaking even on my company (much less losing a single penny). The profit on my premiums is currently either going into somebody's pocket or making up for the fact that they're breaking even or maybe even losing money on a large company that they gave a crazy deal to.

Do you get group car insurance from your employer on your personal vehicle?

The reality is that we are all paying for the uninsured now. Medical costs are artificially inflated to give 'negotiating leverage' against those who are either uninsured or subject to high deductible. Even those with enough assets to 'self insure' would be ripped off if they did so. The example I gave of the 3 stitches was adjusted to $700 (which is still too high for 20 minutes and 3 stitches in my opinion) by demand of the insurance company. There's a lot of smoke and mirrors. Increasing the availability of insurance and giving incentive to employers to provide it encourages people to work for a living and employers to offer insurance instead of stop offering it all together (which is what's going on now - especially small businesses).

quote:

Originally posted by Yak:

quote:

2. No one can be denied coverage for any reason except non-payment.

Scotty
would everyone be required to buy at 18 years of age?

SO on the " No one can be denied coverage "
a guy who buys when 18 takes good care of him self gets no real break over

the guy who never buys and does not need insurance while young and does drugs and drinks to liver failure then wants to buy?

you said nothing about allowing selling/buying insurance across state lines?
Seems to me competition is needed in insurance

As well if the

quote:

The highest premium on any given plan cannot exceed 4 times the lowest premium

would not that really just increase the lower rate
not lower the higher rate?

quote:

1. Eliminate Group Health Insurance. You don't get discounted insurance with super ridiculous benefits on your car insurance because you work for a big company so why should you for health insurance? This is the main reason the small companies and individuals get screwed.

not sure if you ever priced individual policy
until Obama care
Individual health insurance polices were ALWAYS cheaper than group. But you had to buy YOUNG and healthy and pay your whole life... I did

the good part of group, you could screw off your whole life and then get a job when you need a liver transplant that covered you and after 30-90 days you were covered. but the cost was always WAY more than individual (if you purchased when you and kept it paid over the years) again I did

One IDEA I like is at 18 years of age you were allowed to buy insurance no preexisting condition or denial. After 19 years you must qualify. There should be rewards for those who take care of them selves.

But there have been too many slackers who did not buy insurance and when young never felt the $25.00 per month was worth it, but at 50 when they needed coverage for the $60,000.00 operation they think everyone else should pay for it.

there is no such right as health care.
it is a service like copier repair
you no pay you get no care
health Insurance is a privilege you choose to BUY. you no buy you get no health insurance..
you them are a Time and Material repair

Not sure what the answer is for this, I can remember starting the work force back in the early 70's with full medical, dental, vision for myself and family. I could put 10% of my paycheck into a retirement fund and the company would match it and if they had a great year they may match it again.

I go through the wife's insurance plan at work and we pay dearly for a family plan and my 401k only gets matched at 3%.

What great retirement, excellent low cost health insurance, and lots of time off. Get a job with the federal government, or run for a federal political office. No worries about Social Security going bankrupt, your Federal Retirement program isn't part of the peon's Social Security program that you force them to pay into, your above it all. Soak the poor working SOB's so you can have FREE medical and keep 100% of your salary at retirement. Hell, don't forget those consulting and speaking fees you can collect after your term in office. So what if the small business owner has to pay over $700 per person for mandatory health insurance for his employees, and the Insurance companies can drop em on a whim, or raise thier rates, those insurance lobbist sure make a good point with thier $$$ in contributions.

Here is a kicker for ya:

I have to pay an additional 3% on worker's compensation insurance when we do work for the government. Why? Because the Worker's Comp Insurance company can't sue the government. So now my 2 techs have to document every minute that they spend doing anything in support of our government contracts, my office staff has to calculate that time and pay an additional 3% rate for it, or I am in violation and Worker's Comp will sue me and the State of California will fine me. This during a year with the lowest profit margins I have every seen.

I am thinking about adopting all my staff into my immediate family. Maybe it would cost less than paying all these mandatory taxes and fees.

Rant over, at least for now

Thats exactly my point if you want everything in life then get a Govt job. I was just listening to the statistics the other day and Govt workers get about 30% more pay for a job that you would get paid in the private sector.

If you can find one of those jobs go ahead and find one. I am not sure what the future is for the American worker but one thing for sure is that your congressman has to figure on how to cut cost in the health industry.

Maybe a single payer system where each worker has to pay something in to the system and free up the cost for the employers.

You can go up to Canada and pay through the nose for Gasoline and get doubled taxed when you buy something at the store. Went up there fishing last year in June the guy that owned the business where we were staying at had a bad knee and was going to have to limp until September before they could fix his knee.

I just work and invest whatever I can and hope someday everything will work out in the end, I do not rely on Social Security being there when I retire and I hope that all my investments will work out in the end.

Still pissed off at this housing crisis, causing this country to go into a recession.
Still trying to figure out how we gave out all of these house loans to people that could not afford to pay for them.

8.8% unemployement a person should just be happy they have a job and can put food on the table.

quote:

Currently they keep rates really low for large companies

Scotty
I think you missed my point

I am saying it is a fallacy that large companies and groups get lower insurance rates.
The large groups and companies pay MORE not less than individual polices.

I do NOT get lower rates for longevity
the idea is I purchased when young and healthy and never missed a payment. NOW I am old and crippled and many aliments no insurance company would will insure me on a individual policy. But as long as I never miss a payment I am insured,

Another fallacy is Insurance companies cancel your policy when you get sick-- no not as long as you pay the premiums. most people who get canceled fail to pay because they are out of work, other expenses and do not pay the premimums.,.once the policy lapses they cannot buy a individual policy ever again.

GROUP is MOST costly because they will cover anyone who is hired,.so a crippled guy like me that cost them $250,000.00 in the past 5 years will be covered. But the fact they cover anyone -- the cost per person is much higher.

one of the main parts of Obama care is to tax individual policy's and force them up in cost so no one has 100% control on their choice of coverage. Thus Obama care has driven the cost of all individual policies up almost 200% SO FAR. few more Obama increases/taxes and I will not have insurance

maybe I need to be more to the point

GROUP and LARGE company policy's for basic health insurance is NOT cheaper than Individual policy as long as we are talking about a health person signing up.

most people think so.
But is not the real world

A large company or group will hire people (by paw) regardless of their health conditions
and many people looking for job who are already diagnosed with chronic or fatal illness will look for the big company job just for the health insurance. Thus the policy must cover people with cancer aids etc.

a individual policy buyer is subject to examination and qualification before they buy.

So just for the fact the large company policy will cover anywhere from 20% to 40% of people with expensive and chronic illness they MUST charge over all MORE.

quote:

Originally posted by Yak:
maybe I need to be more to the point

GROUP and LARGE company policy's for basic health insurance is NOT cheaper than Individual policy as long as we are talking about a health person signing up.

most people think so.
But is not the real world

A large company or group will hire people (by paw) regardless of their health conditions
and many people looking for job who are already diagnosed with chronic or fatal illness will look for the big company job just for the health insurance. Thus the policy must cover people with cancer aids etc.

a individual policy buyer is subject to examination and qualification before they buy.

So just for the fact the large company policy will cover anywhere from 20% to 40% of people with expensive and chronic illness they MUST charge over all MORE.

That's exactly my point - the large group coverage is paid for by small policy holders. Furthermore, at least in this state, while my insurance won't be dropped as long as I keep paying there is nothing to stop the insurance company from quadrupling my premium at renewal if I do get a costly ailment.
Individuals and small businesses are making up for low profit margins and loses on these larger groups. While the premiums themselves may or may not be cheaper, the benefits from the same carrier may be vastly different. I have a neighbor that works for a much larger company and uses the same carrier I do. His rates are lower than mine by about 20% and his deductibles are lower and benefits cover more (his plan includes vision for example).

For a family of four I paid over 15K in premiums last year. The couple of regular prescriptions that I and my wife take are $4 generics that cost the insurance company $0. I would estimate their total payout in services last year to be about one month of my premiums. That's probably about the average over the last 10 years at worst. We're all in good health.

I am not nor have I ever been supportive of Obama's plan (which you should know from my first post).

That does NOT mean that change doesn't need to be made to make health care more fair. Not only on the insurance side, but the responsibility of doctors to provide cost effective care. I friend of mine was recently told to have a test done that his insurance didn't want to pay for. He was told by the hospital that the test would cost about $5000. When he called his doctor back the doctor indicated that it wasn't that important of a test and the other lab results would tell him enough. If his insurance had covered that test (or if he hadn't check first) he probably would have had it done, even though his doctor admitted that it wasn't entirely necessary. (Not really sure why ANY test should cost $5000 in the first place - that's another problem that needs to be addressed - just like the ridiculous cost of 3 stitches).